Raz Zohar: The Power of Relentless Execution, Resilience & Building an AI Company

0:00Rich Fournier:The world of business is changing super fast. New technology, new competition, and new rules. And average thinking won't survive this next change. The entrepreneurs who win next will think differently, adapt faster, and demand way more food stuff. This is the entrepreneur standard hosted by me, Rich Fournier. Well, hello and welcome back to this episode of the Entrepreneur Standard Podcast. Of course, I'm your host, Rich Fournier, and I'm super excited to welcome a fellow Canadian. And the reason why I'm excited to interview a fellow Canadian on this podcast is because, well, listen, like this is a it's an amazing thing to see the success this person has had and is continuing to have in the industry of business and performance.

0:50Rich Fournier:He is um none other than Rod Zohar, he's the founder and CEO of MAVE AI. And I'm so excited to welcome you to this podcast today.

1:00Raz Zohar:It's my pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. And I am excited to sit down and have a pretty honest conversation together.

1:07Rich Fournier:That's amazing. Um so if you don't mind, we're just gonna share a little bit about who you are and um and just some thoughts that I have. And it looks like you've you've spent more than a decade in technology and entrepreneurship. And that was really before you decide to build something of your own. Um from what I understand, you you know, you launched MAVE in 2023 as a founder, but technically a non-technical founder in the world of artificial intelligence and technology. And that's that's pretty wild.

1:36Raz Zohar:Yeah, that was pretty fun. I'm non-technical. Uh, we also we built purpose-built AI solutions for the real estate industry, and I'm not from the real estate industry, so I was non-technical, non-real estate, and I had to figure out a way to get in there. Luckily, the real estate community is actually very welcoming. So a lot of people were very excited about what we were working on. I was by myself to start, but had a lot of learnings early on. And I guess if there's one piece of advice I give to anyone who is looking to take a journey like that, is get your hands dirty as fast as you possibly can and take on every single opportunity you can.

2:12Raz Zohar:I actually, when I, for better or worse, I don't know how many people actually know this, but when I started, I actually became an executive assistant to about 12 real estate agents to know what they do. Uh the best school I had. Definitely the best school I had, which helped me understand kind of how this world works.

2:29Rich Fournier:And I am so sorry. I'm just gonna apologize because I came from the real estate world. I'm sorry that you had to go through that um quicksand of pain and suffering of hell.

2:39Raz Zohar:Why didn't you apologize? It was the best. Okay, I actually was the best. I don't think I've ever had more anxiety in my entire life in that month, but uh it was here's the thing. I was I'm dealing with an industry that always tells me they're busy. You read the publications saying how much admin work they do per deal, but no one could explain to me what they were doing. So when you deal with a personality like that, the best way to do anything is really just getting your hands dirty. So I think spending a month in their world, getting a call, a text, an email with whatever they need to get done, just made everything so much clearer for me as to which direction to take and end up being a good path because it led us to here.

3:16Raz Zohar:So it's been a fun journey.

3:18Rich Fournier:You know, before we continue, I guess it's really important to really chat about you and this company called MAVE. Um, I know you didn't really want to be self-promoting about it, but there's a reason why you're here, and it's because of what you've done and what you've accomplished uh starting and building MAVE. So if you don't mind, I mean, we don't have to get into the full detail, but tell us a little bit about what MAVE is and what you do and what it does for, say, for example, the real estate industry.

3:45Raz Zohar:Yeah, for sure. So uh MAVE is an AI company. We build purpose-built solutions for the real estate industry. So, what does that mean? We partner with boards, with data providers, and we help brokerages support their operation and help agents create the greatest buying experience for their buyers and the great selling experience for the sellers. Make sure when they do anything, whether it is make sure they understand the market, helping their client through a really difficult decision, they're doing things with the right information in front of them. It's compliant, brokerages can trust it. And at the end of the day, we can be the voice of the industry for the people who represent it.

4:18Raz Zohar:Um, to give me some perspective, I'll keep it short because I don't want to talk about MAFE. But um we start off with nothing, like you said a few years ago. We actually just uh were about to release this. We now power 10% of the Canadian market, uh, which is pretty fun. Uh and now we are expanding you know to the US to more regions, and uh, we recently raised a good round of financing to get all this going. And it's been very, very exciting, and the growth has been really fun to watch.

4:50Rich Fournier:So yeah, and so if you don't mind me taking some liberty and you know, if if what I'm gonna say is not public knowledge, I'm sure we'll cut the podcast and we'll cut it out. But um, you know, you've you've really done some really interesting things. You've actually raised around, I think, seven million dollars in the I don't know if it's a private placement or or what it is, but yeah, I mean that's not an easy feat to raise money, uh, especially in the Canadian environment.

5:15Raz Zohar:It's not easy. Look, you said it. We're a Canadian company in a Canadian environment to give everyone some perspective. We raise from venture capital. Uh very good decision for our type of business, obviously to each their own. But I think raising as a Canadian in an ecosystem that is is more conservative in nature is not the US. Our market is the size of California's. So raising money in a country like ours is definitely more challenging. But I do think if you really continue to focus on your business fundamentals and you say the right things and you focus on the right things, you'll get there. Uh, and I actually think what's happening as of late in Canada is actually making it even easier because I think people are hungry to grow the ecosystem.

5:59Raz Zohar:And especially now, investing in Canadians in Canada is such a hot topic. And I don't think there's ever been a better time to really just get people behind what you're trying to build.

6:09Rich Fournier:Yeah, and just as an aside note, I say, you know, I've seen the banks recently. And so as of recording right now, we're mid-September 2026, and we've seen some record announcements from some of the major institutions, financial institutions in Canada, they're allocating billions of dollars into supporting small business and businesses in Canada. So it's a really exciting time, I think.

6:28Raz Zohar:Definitely. Carney is announcing a lot of things literally today and yesterday. Uh, I think Bell just announced they're investing tens of billions of dollars into their AI projects. I think Canada is eager to invest in itself and its people. So I think, yeah, fundraising is hard. Fundraising is nowhere close to easy, and there's a lot of challenges and a lot of hoops you have to jump through and a lot of people you have to convince to even listen to you. Um, but I do think that, yeah, it's competitive as hell, but there's never been a better time.

7:01Rich Fournier:Well, I appreciate you sharing that. You know, it's interesting. We, you know, you so you you've developed an AI company to support the real estate community and agents and brokerages and and the ecosystem. And and so it sounds like, you know, when you look at AI, um from what I can see from you know an outsider, um, try to stay as educated as I can, but the task disintermediation seems to be um really where AI is going to really um shine and and and and I'm assuming that's part of what you do. You're disintermediating some of the the mundane tasks that uh that a professional example real estate agent would do.

7:42Rich Fournier:And is that is that really where AI is is that is that the claim, is that what it's gonna do is just disintermediate a lot of tasks?

7:48Raz Zohar:I have a few thoughts on this. So, one, the term AI. Here's the reality: everything is AI at this point. Whether it's a software, whether it is a company like ours, whatever it may be, AI is in everything. Uh, you're searching things on Google, you're using AI. You the little um when you type an email out and it finishes your sentence automatically, that is AI. AI is everywhere, right? But I think what you're saying, which is spot on, is where it's going next. Yes, Chat GPT broke everything a few years ago when it came out, and now we're on a never-ending run where every hour a new tool comes out or a new model comes out and you have to compete with.

8:25Raz Zohar:But I think, do you know what White Combinator is? Yeah. Okay, so White Combinator just released a report about they have a demo day at the end of every single cohort. And I think there were about 75 presentations. One company was software. The rest were either hardware or what are called harnesses. Do you know what harnesses are?

8:42Rich Fournier:I do, I do, but for our audience, let me if you could explain what a harness is.

8:46Raz Zohar:Okay, to dumb it down in simple language, so Claude co-work is a harness, but let to give you an example of what that actually means, AI can do a lot of things, a lot of things on its own, a lot of things well, a lot of things not so well. What a harness allows you to do is give it rules and a box to play with it, right? So if you let's say MAVE is a harness, right? So if you need MAVE to write a contract for you, for example, we have to build specific guidelines, specific rules, specific things that it can and cannot do, specific things that it cannot share with the public, specific software that it cannot plug into.

9:21Raz Zohar:These rules are harnesses that eventually, in real time right now, we do this, take on work as opposed to just give you an answer. And I think to your point of you know, getting rid of tasks, where I'm really excited about where AI is going next is there's another big trend now where a lot of people are, they just don't talk about software anymore because where it's really going is service is really the new software. So, what does that actually mean? Is I don't think people are really going to be spending money trying to buy a tool to do their job. They're just gonna be paying something to do the job for them, regardless of how it gets done.

9:58Raz Zohar:And I think that's where it's going. So we do that on a day-to-day basis, but I think all of the frontier AI companies are thinking constantly of, okay, rich needs something done. How do we just do it for rich? Doesn't matter what he's logging into using, if it's the prettiest or ugliest interface, if it's using Gemini or OpenAI. It doesn't matter. The work is really the product.

10:21Rich Fournier:So does that mean, you know, and I know this we're going um we're going out in the world of AI, which is a never-ending abyss, but super interesting from my perspective. Um that agentic AI bots, um, the ecosystem of that is the future, um, and where everyone will have their own agentic assistant to be able to go do things for them when they need it done.

10:48Raz Zohar:I think it's the current. I don't even think it's the future. I mean, you see Meta last week released their version new, uh, which we can't access in Canada, which is so annoying. Um, but I think you're gonna keep seeing this develop, whether it's open source by a company like Meta or Grokbot or whatever it may be. I actually I think a little differently. I think the future is going to have these types of agentic harnesses living in the background that you don't even know exist. And you're just gonna be sending a message on iMessage or WhatsApp or whatever it may be that you do you do the way you would talk to your assistant, and things just get done.

11:23Raz Zohar:And things call something or someone. I don't think I think it'll be platform agnostic, and I think that's what you're seeing right now, which is people want to do work in their way, and especially I'll pick on our industry. Real estate agents love to tell you absolutely nothing and expect you to just know everything about how they like to work. So true. That's okay. I think this is where this is gonna shine because you can build these playbooks into these harnesses, and then you just can call it or text or whatever you want to do, however, you like to work, email it. You just won't even know it exists.

11:55Raz Zohar:You're just gonna be emailing this email address, and things will just get done. And I think that's where it's going. Uh and not only that, it'll probably get to know you so well that it'll just start doing things for you without you asking, and it's gonna message you when you got to do things. So that's I think the next evolution of AI.

12:13Rich Fournier:And um just because we keep opening this can and opening and more worms are coming out, um, and to the level that you're talking about, how far away are we from something like that?

12:26Raz Zohar:Okay, I think some are closer than others. Uh, I'll tell you what we see a lot of. So, for example, we actually already do that, right? So we are preemptive in nature. We can pick up on specific meaningful moments in the market or your journey with a client, whatever it may be, and start doing work for you. And we can text you, you can send a voicemail, whatever you need to mave and maybe do it. I think you see tools like Rockbot or Muse are doing it as well. But here's the next layer that needs to be unlocked for it to really take off. Because I still very fundamentally believe that AI right now is more of a business solution rather than a personal solution.

13:04Raz Zohar:I don't think there's like a B2C version of AI yet. Uh, I think I use it a lot for work. Because of that, what a lot of companies are looking for right now, which is the biggest and hottest topic, especially in an industry that's regulated like real estate, is okay, very cool, quad, chat GPT, Gemini, Muse, whatever it may be. That's really nice for me, but now I'm gonna have to onboard 500 people. How do I make sure one, there's enterprise controls? How do I make sure it's secure? How do I make sure that I can govern what's going on, that it's compliant with the work that needs to get done, that I know what my teammates are actually plugging this into?

13:41Raz Zohar:These are all things that are more difficult to scale. So I think for it to really be unlocked, and again, Rich, we're talking the next six months because I can't even tell you what the world looks like beyond six months because every hour this changes. I know you're gonna start seeing a lot of focus, especially on the enterprise of how do you roll this out securely, safely in the way that you can actually control.

14:04Rich Fournier:Got it, got it, got it. That makes a lot of sense to me. Let's go back maybe um let's go back maybe before MAVE, because a lot of our our listeners are entrepreneurs, they're small business people, some of them are large business people, some of them you know are C level executives at some major um institutions. But uh I'd like to take uh uh us on a journey right now and to take you back before MAVE existed. Like what made you decide after uh you know of of years of helping other people, being involved in other things? What like what made you to decide that it was finally time to put your own name and reputation behind something?

14:45Raz Zohar:I started my first few businesses in university and some went absolutely nowhere. Uh, some were actually acquired, which was really fun. And they weren't just tech. I started a flag football league uh that actually was the flag football league for that university, which is pretty cool. It was all over the place, Mike, what I'm getting at. And when I got into tech, um I got really excited by the ecosystem, about the culture, about just being a part of it is so incredible and so fun. It's just another level of energy. And I was a part of these stories where we started with three of us in a room, grew to hundreds of people, raised way too much money, which is another conversation we could have another day or today, um, and either saw success or even saw it not, right?

15:38Raz Zohar:Um the most recent things I did was I was a part of a company called Thriver. Again, grew from zero to 100 million in sales, raised 60 million dollars. Uh we were in uh office management, snacks, catering solutions, event management, whatever it may be. And then COVID happened and there were no more offices, right? We were 250 employees at the time. Uh 100 million dollars a year in revenue went down to almost zero overnight. Had to one day we had to let go of about 80 people. One day. Uh I had to let go of about a third of that. It was the hardest, worst, but also the one of the most uh important professional days in my career.

16:21Raz Zohar:Uh I remember sitting with my wife at the she wasn't my wife yet, uh, and just crying after that day because it's just so difficult. Um you learn a lot through those experiences. And I think after going through it so many times, you kind of I had the itch again to do it my way. Uh, and very, very quickly I was trying to figure out what am I curious about? What areas am I really finding myself constantly going back to beyond the technology sector? And as I was looking for my next thing, real estate just kept coming up as a topic. And then when I bought a home with my wife, everything kind of clicked into place, which started that motion.

17:04Raz Zohar:But what I will also say is that I wasn't I was looking for an idea, but MAVE wasn't the obvious choice. I actually had a different idea that I was trying to pursue before MIDE even came about. It just kind of came to me. Uh, and the industry kind of started asking for it to the point that people were willing to pay for it. So I'm like, okay, this could be a real thing over here. Let's pay attention. And I don't think MAVE was designed on purpose to get there. I think I just got there by just continuing to ask questions. So, what made me want to start something again?

17:35Raz Zohar:I think it's just there's something contagious about this industry that just makes you want to continue to just try and build something. And I think once you've done it once, whether you failed or succeeded, you see the path and you remember the journey as hard and terrible as it is, how incredibly rewarding it is. And you know, I keep telling myself that after whatever happens with Mave, I'm gonna take six to 12 months off. I already know I'm gonna probably spend like a week and then I'm like, okay, what's next? It's just it's so fun. Uh, and as exhausted as you are, there's nothing more rewarding.

18:10Raz Zohar:So, do you mind if I push back a little bit?

18:13Rich Fournier:Just a little bit um here, because you, you know, there's some people who never get off the ground. There's some people who have wishful ideas, there's people who can't think beyond, you know, today, or which is isn't wrong. Um but why why you? Like what what what in your upbringing gave you the confidence and certainty to make a decision to pursue something through your imagination with faith, and it allows you to have the confidence and certainty to keep pushing even in the midst of of failures? Big question. It's a really big question, you know. But like it's and it's meant and I really want to draw this out because I know we have uh you know, we have people listening here that have gone through failure who have been sitting on ideas for years and not have yet pulled the trigger.

19:06Rich Fournier:So why you where did this confidence come from?

19:10Raz Zohar:I didn't have the easiest childhood. You know, I'm uh I'm Israeli. I moved here when I was nine, didn't know the language, had to figure it out. Um I failed so many times in my life. It we didn't come from money. Um I failed so many times at school at trying things. I I don't think I ever believed failure was bad. Uh but I think what I learned very quickly is fail as many times as you want, it's up to you to get back up, right? And I think ideas are great. I think everyone's got ideas. I have a Google Sheet with 300 ideas for businesses.

19:46Raz Zohar:Most are probably terrible. Um but it's just the attitude of just going and trying. And I think that's what something that was something that instilled. My parents instilled me very early on. Uh, my dad is an entrepreneur, my uncle's an entrepreneur. Uh, I've been surrounded by it. Uh and I think if you're asking me what drove me and what kind of made me go, is I didn't believe there's another option in my head. Whether it's successful or not, I needed to just do it. And I think doing it in my head was nothing more than just getting in that room and trying. Uh, and I think a lot of the fear that people experience, by the way, I'm afraid every day.

20:29Raz Zohar:Uh like, you know, I have no idea what I'm doing throughout the process. Yes, things are moving in the right direction, but Rich, I've made every mistake you can think of to try to get here. Um, and what people need to understand about entrepreneurship is not necessarily how good your idea is, it's it's really a game of pain. Uh, and it's a game of you're gonna walk into the office every single day and the world is gonna collapse on you. And it's on you to find a way to keep it up, celebrate for one minute, and then solve the next problem. And then you're gonna go to bed and you're gonna have to get out of bed the next day and say, let's go do it again.

21:04Raz Zohar:Um, and that's the game of business. It is survival, it is finding a way when nobody wants you to find one. And I think if you don't get excited by that, it doesn't matter what your idea is. It really doesn't because that's the game you're gonna play. And if you feel like you can handle that type of situation, you're gonna thrive. And maybe it's my upbringing, maybe it's my past experiences, maybe it's the people I surround myself with. Those are the types of people that kind of help me understand that that's what that's what I think I can do.

21:35Rich Fournier:You know, Elon Musk is like chewing glass. I think that's the reference point you said where you know it was like when you're in business, sometimes it's just like chewing glass every single day, because you have to figure it out. Um, how much does your environment play a role in keeping you um you know emotionally engaged, confident, and certain, and and and motivated to keep going? Seems like a simple question, but Does your environment like does it does it does does your environment matter or are you able to do it on your own?

22:07Raz Zohar:I'm not able to do it. I'm a solo founder, just so you know. Uh, not by design. I actually I was trying to uh start this with a co-founder in the beginning. We can get into the story in a second. He actually uh he decided to walk away right after we signed our first deal, and he was my technical partner. So I can tell you about the story. That was a fun one. Um being a solo founder is very challenging. And I think what has helped me get through the good times, the bad times, um, is having a really good support system around me. So I think, first of all, is I just had this conversation with a fellow founder who's about to start a business for the first time yesterday.

22:45Raz Zohar:Having a very honest conversation with your wife or partner, whoever it may be. I think before I started, um she very much knew what we were going into, uh, both emotionally, financially. You know, I didn't make a single dollar for the first year and a half. Um and that's a lot of pressure on her, right? We have a young kid. Uh, we bought a house at the time. There, there were so many things that uh led to this being even harder. Having that person be there for you is really the biggest difference. And I think it is a it is a partner you choose. So I think if you are thinking about doing this, I think having that conversation early on before you start is very, very, very important.

23:25Raz Zohar:And I also I continue to try and surround myself with people who are either a step, two, three, 10 steps ahead of me that can come help me when I do deal with a situation that I've never dealt with, right? I've never dealt with a co-founder leaving me. Who can I luckily have the people around me to just help me pick up my things and keep going? I didn't know how to build a product. Luckily, I had people around me you can introduce with people to help me get that product off the ground with a signed contract. You know, it just these things help you get through that tough time.

23:59Raz Zohar:And I do want to just call out something to keep saying. I don't think maybe I'm not saying, maybe I don't believe it, but I don't know if I'm confident, right? I don't know if confidence is what I have. I think it's maybe it's relentlessness, maybe just being relentless, maybe it's it's it's uh fear of failure is maybe the right thing of just saying, like, I will do everything that I can to make sure this doesn't not work. You know, I have we have almost 20 employees. I they depend on me. I have investors, I have customers. It's we have people who need to make sure we continue, who love what we do, uh, and it's on me to support them, make sure this is a success for all of us.

24:43Raz Zohar:And I think that drives me more than confidence.

24:47Rich Fournier:Thank you for clarifying that. And I'm so grateful that you are open to chat about this. You know, there's the being relentless, you know, the vast majority of people in um in the space that I play in, of course, is coaching and training and performance. And um so many people that I communicate with are fearful or worried about what other people think about them. And so they um while they may have drive, they have um in they're inspired, they have these things, but this one demon seems to get in the way. Um, is that a demon that you you struggle with? Or yeah, okay.

25:25Raz Zohar:I mean, especially early on.

25:27Rich Fournier:Yeah.

25:27Raz Zohar:Uh I think I've become less sensitive to it as time continues, and maybe that is confidence.

25:35Rich Fournier:Well, I think as you have more success, then you get you're comfortable with your own decision making. Is that fair?

25:40Raz Zohar:I think once you see yourself climbing out of so many holes and just bad situations, you're okay. Uh, you know, I just listened to a Travis Clinic podcast where he said, like, I think I'm just better at handling shit shows. Can I swear?

25:54Rich Fournier:Or can I you totally can swear this? Okay, yeah, yeah.

25:57Raz Zohar:This is his new company, he's moving atoms, right? Like exactly. So he's like, I just know there's gonna be another shit show that's coming up. So now when it comes up, I just say interesting, as opposed to having a complete mental breakdown. I think that's the same one. Yeah, yeah. I had meant I had so many emotional breakdowns early on, and especially when you're trying to recruit people to come join you and join you when there's nothing. I mean, no customers, no product, no, no validation. You are so sensitive to what people think because you're trying to sell yourself constantly. And I think constant rejection.

26:30Raz Zohar:I still get constantly rejected every single day, whether it's by my friends telling me I'm an idiot, uh, my wife calls me an idiot, cut whatever it is, right? It's it's I have so many most of my ideas aren't good, but I think you just start getting more comfortable with the idea that it's going to figure itself out. And yes, maybe Rich doesn't love me, but that is okay. Rich is his he's his own person and he's gonna have his own opinions, and that's okay because I still have these amazing people who are around me, and we're gonna make sure we're doing we're gonna do some special things together in what we believe is right.

27:01Raz Zohar:And that takes a really, really, really, really long time and a lot of work to get there. But look, we're this is year three of us doing it. I'm now getting good at it. Let's go with that.

27:12Rich Fournier:So good, so good, so good. Thank you for sharing that. Around three years ago, I was, you know, we've done, you know, I did some reading up on you and you know, using AI to help me have, you know, do some research on you. And you had mentioned previously you were sitting in the audience at Inman with an idea and and thinking it'd be incredible to be on the stage. Um, this year you happened to be um a guest and a speaker at Inman. Um what did the guy sitting in that under in that audience underestimate about what those three these last three years were going to demand from you?

27:54Raz Zohar:So I want to say how hard that it is gonna be, but that's such a cop-out answer. Let me be a little bit more prescriptive here. This has been the most rewarding, stressful, anxiety-red three years of my life. All I want, and I've I will never do anything else. And I think everyone tells you how hard it is. But I think what look, you can read whatever you want online, whether it's on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram videos. You'll hear people tell, like you said, Elon Musk says he he cheats every day, whatever it is.

28:30Rich Fournier:I don't even watch Netflix anymore. I'm just a consumer of information trying to get better every day.

28:35Raz Zohar:Exactly. And you know what? They're not wrong, but you don't understand this until you do it, until you are faced with a situation that you legitimately have never faced in your life, and you alone have to figure out how to solve it without any idea how to do it, and you have everything right in against you. I think I misunderstood that level of stress, anxiety, pressure, which I've become pretty good at getting through. But early on, man, it is so hard. Like you're thinking, like, oh, I can do this. I've grown so many businesses. Oh, you know what? I've turned business, I've turned ideas into businesses before.

29:13Raz Zohar:I'm great. Uh, and I think I really miss I underestimated that dramatically. But here's what I also underestimated how incredibly satisfying it is to see the other side enjoy what you're doing. And um there were a few moments, if you don't mind me sharing that.

29:33Rich Fournier:I think no, please, thank you.

29:34Raz Zohar:Really, like I'll never forget. Very, very one, I remember the first product we ever built. I built, I built it. Okay. So just to give me some perspective on it. We now have a we have what I would argue is probably the best product and engineering team in the industry. Like, we're we it took us a long time to get here, but now we're here. Originally it was me, okay. Um, but I'll never forget the first time someone used MAVE and you know, a task was done. And I'm like, that is crazy. I'll like I'll never forget the high I got from that exact moment.

30:06Raz Zohar:That person didn't even know anything, right? I just got pinged in my system. I'll never forget when we were a really young team working out of a co-working space, and we were maybe five to ten people, and I ran a mini almost like hackathon. Do you know what a hackathon is? Yep. Yeah, to come with ideas as to what we can improve MAVE. And just seeing the passion my employees have for what we're building, and you and you just think about the fact that this didn't exist eight, nine months ago. We you just kind of just created this, and people are passionate. Um, it is going into a meeting.

30:38Raz Zohar:I mean, Rich, the way we got connected is you reached out and people just know MAVE now uh around the country, uh, whether it's a board, a brokerage, an agent, is just such a cool experience. Uh, and um it's very humbling, it's very fun. Uh, we have a lot of work to do, but these are the moments that really you just you just really can't believe these are happening as you go because you really can't think about them every day because there's so much going on.

31:04Rich Fournier:Right, right. So the truth is you can just do things, you can just do things. So through your imagination, you can create an idea, yeah, and you can get to work, and you can iterate and iterate and iterate and iterate until something works, and you have to have the the strength and the certainty and this relentless attitude of I'm willing to iterate and willing to do and burn the bridge, burn the boat, take the island.

31:32Raz Zohar:And so very few people are willing to do that, uh especially in today's age where it is so much easier to build a business, whether it is a service, a product, whatever it may be. You have to assume that everyone can build what you're doing. Everyone and anyone, right? But what's gonna take what are you gonna do to make sure you win or you can actually have a success with this? And it usually comes down to two things. Actually, one thing can you get it out of bed the next day and can you go do it again and again and again? Because most people around you will give up.

32:05Raz Zohar:Uh and I think it is a very challenging thing to say to do something like that. It's easy to say, uh, but I think again, ideas are a dime a dozen, execution will always win.

32:19Rich Fournier:Execution always wins. You know, you're building, thank you for that, because you know, you can have these great ideas, but if you're not executing on a daily basis, it doesn't matter what you think about. This idea that you can think about things and things come to you. Um, I think there's there's there's a little bit of you know truth in that. Um and I'd say that if you can't execute on anything, uh like to a high level and for a really considerable length of time, like how long have you been working? So three years of MAVE, like, but like it hasn't just been three years.

32:51Rich Fournier:This is a lifetime of of building resilience and getting good at hearing no.

32:58Raz Zohar:Yeah. I my first job at a school, I worked for an ad agency and I was there to sell advertising. That's like I did a nutshell, that that was my job. And we had quotas. And I actually really, really think that first job because it was one of the best training I ever had from the get-go. I had to make 120 calls a day. 120 calls at least 80 minutes on the phone. Those are the metrics we had to hit early on. We just started. Do you know how many no's I would get in the day? I can't even. It was the best school I could have ever asked.

33:30Raz Zohar:I used to knock on doors to try and generate leads in some of my businesses. It's I actually told my son's a year and a half. It's something I'm going to make sure he does one day is go go eat shit for a couple of years, go get rejected every single time, go speak with another human, try to build a connection there to see if they're going to want what you're talking about. Uh, no matter what you do, whether you're building a business, whether you're selling something, whether you are trying to convince the other side of something, you're always selling something. And I think dealing with the rejection, understanding how to connect with the other side is a skill that to me is probably the number one, two, and three skill.

34:10Raz Zohar:Raising money, you're selling yourself in your vision, right? Um, it's always that.

34:16Rich Fournier:It's always that deep connection. You know, speaking of your son, you know, as a having a young son, you're looking out at the world, um, you know, that's coming and some say is here, whether it's AGI or ASI. Um, I guess it depends on, you know, the finite vertical. ASI is probably here in certain segments. Um, in in your tech company, um you're building a company in a technology environment where the capabilities can change dramatically in six months, maybe even less than. How do you make long-term decisions? Um how do you make long-term decisions on the future focus of your company?

35:01Raz Zohar:That's a really good question.

35:03Rich Fournier:You know, and so just to read context for some of our listeners, you know, real estate space is an industry that, you know, so many people try to disrupt the industry for so long, but you're not trying to disrupt it, you're trying to be um support it. Support it, yeah. And so just technology is moving so fast. How do you stay ahead and how do you make those decisions?

35:21Raz Zohar:Yeah, so I think the the way we think about it at MAVE is less so about the product we're building, the but rather what is the industry believed should exist. And I think our job is to move the needle in that direction. So now, as we said, it is easier than ever to build a new feature, right? Whether someone wants this or that, I could probably do in a few days. Um, but I think it has to move in the direction we believe the industry is heading. So, you know, you said it. Everyone's trying to, since the beginning of time, people have been trying to disrupt the real estate industry, try to get rid of agents, um, whatever it may be.

35:57Raz Zohar:But here's reality. Last year, 90 almost 93% of all transactions in North America were done through a realtor. It is the highest in recorded history with everything that's going on. I think when you look at the purchasing behavior, there is a psychological element when it comes to actually buying a home. Uh, this isn't, it's not like I'm buying a pair of socks on Amazon. If I don't like them, I can return them. If I'm buying a home, one it is it is a complicated transaction. It's usually the largest transaction I will have in my life. It is a highly emotionally tied transaction because look, it is where I will build my family, where I will raise my kids, uh, where I'll have some of the best and toughest times of my life.

36:41Raz Zohar:And if I make a mistake with that, I will potentially screw that. I'll I may I may screw up my mine and my family's life. And I think what we see a lot of, especially with high-ticket items like buying a home, is the higher the price, the more hand holding you want. Which is why I think the real realtors are here to stay, which seems to be a contrarian point of view at this time. Um, I don't what maybe their jobs will change, what they do every day will change, but I don't think that somebody wanting to work with rich will ever change because they need someone to support them.

37:16Raz Zohar:They need the comfort. I I have all the data in the world to make a decision. I use the realtor to sell my properties and buy a new home that we just bought uh because I wanted to work with a professional who can make sure I'm taking care of myself and my family. Yeah. And I do think that that will never change. So, how do we think about where to build next? How do we continue to enable that small business owner, which is the agent, to provide the greatest experience? Because when that client needs it, you have to be well equipped to have it. And it's on us to make sure they do it the right way, to make sure the brokerage can support them in the right way, and to make sure that that client gets taken care of every step of the way.

37:56Raz Zohar:Um, and if that's what we believe to be natively true, how do we support each party in making that a reality? And that's what we think a lot about.

38:04Rich Fournier:Right. So you're making a, you know, you make it, and by the way, I'm probably I am in agreement. Um, you know, fear, ego, and greed will keep it the agent in place for the last, you know, 10, 15% of the of the transaction. Um, but you're providing services, technology, and uh and and and the framework um to be to support that person or agent through that process to make sure that they have access to all applicable information at the at the at the within seconds. Yeah. I think there's some huge, huge, huge value add there. Um yeah, because you know, working um um launching and starting and and and growing a tech company in this time um is probably one of the most difficult times in in the lifecycle, not because it's uh it because technology is changing so fast.

38:58Rich Fournier:And we had chatted about this previously around you know, you know, agentic AI and bots and the future of and how I mean Cloudflare recently stated that you know the ecosystem of of AI and agentic box is gonna be a thousand times the size of the human economy. And it's it and it's almost like unfathomable, and um, and I can't think in exponential. If I could could, I guess I would be retired by now. Um but um you know thinking the way you think around the future, I mean, I'm sure you must spend a lot of time in deep contemplation about what's next.

39:35Raz Zohar:So, okay, let's start with what you said, which is starting a business today. I actually think it's never easy to start one. I think it is never harder to scale one. So, what do I mean by scaling? You said it, right? Cloudflare said that the agentic ecosystem will be so large that just think about as a consumer, how do you even know what to download next? How do you even know what to trust? Um I'll give you a very interesting thing I just heard at a conference. So I know about you, I pretty much never answer a phone call anymore unless it's in the phone number I know.

40:13Raz Zohar:Um my inbox is flooded with emails. The number one uh investment that big corporations are investing in right now in terms of their marketing dollars, is events. Because I think people are trying to work with people they know are real and they can actually connect with. And I think what's separating companies who are succeeding versus the ones that are getting lost in the noise is a lot about trust. It's connection. It is, how do I know that Rich is a legitimate company, right? How do I know that MAVE will actually take care of me? Are they, you know, we have a very uh nice office in downtown Toronto.

40:48Raz Zohar:Uh the team has done a great job. People love coming to our office because, like, oh my God, these guys are a real company. Uh, they have real people. Um, and that's actually a big, big differentiator as you start to scale up the company. And when it comes to the future, I have no idea. If I knew the future, I would be who knows where I'd be right now. But I think where I continue to double down on is that I think in a world where there's so much online activity and digital activity, human connection will continue to be front center. And if that's reality, if that's where the world is going, how do we make sure we present ourselves in the most human way while helping you actually grow your business in ways that you never knew you could?

41:34Raz Zohar:So where's the future going? I still think it's around the human. I just think finding ways to connect it with the other side is infinitely going to be tougher if you're just trying to go the online route.

41:47Rich Fournier:Got it. Got it. That makes a lot of sense to me. Um makes a lot of sense to me. How do you keep yourself so motivated? Like, are you involved in personal development? Like, is there something, is there a process or daily process that you keep yourself in? And you don't have to even have to say yes, but if there is a process that you follow to keep yourself in a good frame of mind for the other entrepreneurs that are listening, maybe share with them a little bit about what you do.

42:11Raz Zohar:Yeah, I can tell you there's a five-step process I actually just gave a talk about that I constantly try to go through in my head. But I will say this I have a therapist, I have a CEO coach, I have a great support system around me that helped me get through this. So this isn't something I just figured out out of the blue. Uh, I have spent a lot of years working on this. And uh whether you do have a good system around you, whether you don't, it's such a personal decision. This is the system that works for me. Uh, I have no shame in admitting that therapy has changed my life.

42:42Raz Zohar:And I really, really advise people to do it if they if they feel comfortable. Uh, coaching and having CEO coaches changed me. Here's how I think about dealing with tough situations. Let's use the one where my co-founder left me early on, right? I'll never forget leaving that lunch. And I lived on the Danforth at the time, and this was uh just west of Yorkville. I walked home and around the Danforth for like three hours, just thinking in my head of what am I going to do next? And it really boiled down to a few steps in my head that I think were really, really hard to get my motivation up, but it's what I do now.

43:18Raz Zohar:It's like on my wall. Um, one, and this is a really this first question is the hardest one. Do I believe in myself to try and solve this? And have to so myself to think about it a lot for a long time because this second thing is it's actually one and two, is what I'm doing impossible to do. So if the answer is not, and I believe myself, that usually gets me, gets a fire belt in me right away. I am a non technical founder. I just lost my engineer, but I came from tech. I have a network. What I'm building is possible. It's not like I'm trying to cure cancer by myself.

43:55Raz Zohar:It's like I can do this. Um I have confidence I can build it. If I know that what I'm doing is not impossible, then my thing is if it's not impossible, usually I ask either is there someone I can speak to about how to answer the next question, or what is my next best step? Once I understand that, the last point I have is how do I get started with that? And once I have that in my head, I know how to move forward. And then I think a lot of anxiety, a lot of uncertainty, a lot of lack of confidence comes from not knowing what the first step needs to be.

44:31Raz Zohar:And I think once you just map out that first step, it just starts going.

44:35Rich Fournier:Um what a great framework to be able to stop, re-evaluate, rethink about some things, and then to be able to give you a path moving forward. So it's a great framework.

44:46Raz Zohar:Thanks. Uh it took me a long time to figure that out.

44:48Rich Fournier:But uh that's going to be the next version of our book together.

44:51Raz Zohar:Love it. You can write the first 10 chapters, I'll chime in for some notes.

44:58Rich Fournier:Um, listen, we've you've taken up so much of your time, and I just really want to ask you just a couple more questions. And so thanks again for sharing so much time. If you could sit down with an entrepreneur today who who knows that they're capable of building something bigger, but keeps waiting till they feel more ready. Um, what would you tell them?

45:17Raz Zohar:Dive in. Uh it's something that I had to deal with constantly is you are never ready. You're literally never ready. The only way to move forward is to start doing. Uh, I'm a very big believer in that.

45:32Rich Fournier:Right. Right. You're never gonna be ready to just go now. Um I appreciate this. And uh, this is the final, final question. And this is a question we ask every guest. Um and it's um it's what is one standard you hold yourself to that has had the biggest impact on your success? Because the name of our podcast, of course, is the entrepreneur standard. And we believe that every person has a standard that has to be held at a certain in a certain way. So, what's the one standard that you you have you know that you have to hold yourself to that you feel that is probably having the biggest impact in your business?

46:19Raz Zohar:So, in terms of standard, it's something I teach my team, it's actually one of our core values. Um I call an inner circle, and I say that because you know, when I went through this coaching exercise, one of the first exercises I did with my coach is I put together like my pillars as a person. Like, what do I deeply believe in? And it's about CIA, community integrity, ambition. And the first thing is taking care of my community, which is if you're here, you're in my inner circle, and I will drop everything I possibly can to take care of you. I don't care what it is, but I will always take care of my people no matter what.

46:55Raz Zohar:And I think that's what gets me to do anything because whether it's my clients, my team, my son, uh, if you're in my inner circle, you know that I'm there for you. And I think that's something I try to teach everyone I have because you take care of the people around you, things will go where you need them to go. Uh, and I think that's what's important in life is so community, integrity, ambition. Ambition. Those are that's again, that's a super personal one for me.

47:26Rich Fournier:I appreciate that by the way, because you know, I I don't think uh, you know, I talked to a lot of entrepreneurs, I don't think they've sat down and really figured out some core values that are that is part of their their ecosystem. It's what's driving them.

47:38Raz Zohar:And that's it was actually one of the first things my coach made me do. Uh, and it was a really, really good exercise. It was really hard. We spent a long time on it because it was a lot of just self-reflection, uh, highly recommended for everyone. And it really boiled down to what I truly believe is I very, very much need to support my community. I think there's a specific way to operate, and it's what I believe integrity stands for. And, you know, I will pass up on the greatest deal of my life if I don't think it ethically makes sense. Uh, and I have I have done that uh in the past.

48:13Raz Zohar:And ambition is something I'm gonna teach my son from the the day he can understand it. Um and I think that's what gets you out of bed every morning. So yeah.

48:24Rich Fournier:Community, integrity, ambition. Thank you. Thank you for sharing intimately about some thoughts that you have around business and sharing, you know, a little bit about MAVE. Um, I think you're gonna be a very large part of the ecosystem. You're showing that to be true today. And um, I appreciate you sharing some of these emotional, personal details, and I'm positive that um this type of conversation is gonna impact other entrepreneurs um in a very at a very high level and in a very intimate way. So thank you. Thank you very much. Um and uh and and if um anybody wants to reach out to you, what would be the best way to reach out to you?

49:02Raz Zohar:Uh I'm active on LinkedIn. You can connect me there, you can email me. I don't know if I should be doing this, but res at maveai.co. I'll do my best to respond. Um and if you are in the industry and you want to sign up, hop onto our website. Uh, our team will love to work with you.

49:17Rich Fournier:Um so appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you so much again for being here today. And I look forward to connecting with you again.

49:23Raz Zohar:You as well. Thanks, Rich.